Christian Carnivals 144 and 145

CXLIV (144)

The introduction from Buzz at The Buzz Blog:

Let's get things started with this:

And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. - John 1:16-18

CXLV (145)

The introduction from Henry at The Participatory Bible Study Blog:

I've chosen a theme ride at an amusement park as the metaphor with which to present the posts. Please don't take it too seriously-I chose where to place some of the posts based more on numbers than on content, though I tried to keep it reasonable. After reading all these posts, I was reminded of the text:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven" -- Ecclesiastes 3:1

About Christian Carnival:

Contributing a Post to the Christian Carnival

The Christian Carnival is open to Christians of Protestant, Orthodox, and Roman Catholic convictions. One of the goals of this Carnival is to offer our readers to a broad range of Christian thought.

Posts need not be of a theological topic. Posts about home life, politics, or current events, for example, written from a Christian worldview are welcome.

Update: As the goal of this Carnival is to highlight Christian thought in the blogosphere, entries will be limited to blogs that share that goal. Blogs with content that is focused on a business, that has potentially offensive material Christians may not want to link to on their sites, or has no reference to distinctively Christian thought may not be included in this Carnival. There are other Carnivals that would be a more appropriate venue for that material. I realize that this will be a judgment call on the part of the Carnival administrator, and being human she may make mistakes. However, as the Christian Carnival is getting quite large, and it is sometimes questionable whether the entrants are seeking to promote Christian thought, I find this necessary.

Update: We also expect a level of discourse that is suitable for a Christian showcase. Thus entries may be refused if they engage in name-calling, ad hominem attacks, offensive language, or for any similar reason as judged by the administrator.

So, if you have a post in this framework - go here to find out more: Christian Carnival Participation Instructions. Deadline for next Carnival: 10/31 at 11:59pm EST.

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Joy in Her Doubt

It was inevitable. It was necessary. It is here.

My 13 year old daughter doubts her faith; thinks it is wrong to force her to go to church; and wishes to figure out what she believes "on her own". I am actually happy this occurred at 13; and not 17 or 18 when I really expected it to happen. However, again, it was inevitable. It was necessary.

We go to school and learn "the truth"; our parents teach us "the truth"; we open books and read "the truth" - and it doesn't take us very long to realize these are different stories. They conflict and so we started seeking authority - some way to know what to really believe. Children start to say "well, everyone believes this"; so the authority is what everyone thinks; or "we voted on this"; "the teacher says"; "I think"; or "I cannot believe in a God that would do that" *

* all quotes in this diary except the last are from "Loving God with all Your Mind" and are my paraphrase of Carl Palmer

I do not think God lets us cruise into Heaven on the faith of our parents. We have to own it ourselves. She has to own it herself in a school program for the academically gifted in a school district filled with engineers and scientists: her peers are not Christians, or believers of any sort. She is now surrounded, and hammered apparently, by agnostics and atheists intent, in a way only teenagers can model, of proving her faith irrational and anti-intellectual. She has come to doubt as a result. I sincerely thank God for that; and in this moment feel vindicated that we never put her in a Christian school in order to avoid this problem.

Many people respond to doubt with avoidance - it is hard work to anchor one's faith. After all, I blew out of my faith for 25 years and became a hard agnostic and an enemy of God - until my wife hammered at the judge long enough. It was meeting God that brought me back - my arrogance and pride was broken by the Holy Spirit. The last 11 years has been all about anchoring my faith after decades of deriding and insulting followers of Christ, and indeed any believers in any form of God, for their superstitions and metaphysics.

We live in a culture that is very opposed to critical thinking. By critical thinking, Carl means carefully examining something to see if it is true or not. We are so bombarded with lies that (since we have lived in a culture where we are told we determine what is true) now people no longer know how to think very well. That should not be true of followers of Jesus Christ. We should be leading the way in the right use of the mind.

Some Christians in America have also become anti-intellectual. They will say things like:

• "Do not try to understand this with your mind - just believe";
• "Faith is not really a reasonable thing";
• "Faith is not intended to be logical";
• "Faith is a leap in the dark";
• "God's thoughts are above our thoughts".

What do all these mean? Does that mean God is not logical? That His logic is different from ours? That He would say 2+2=15; but we cannot understand that so we just have to believe? If you hear something like that you should hear a large warning horn going off somewhere - these things are not true

Of course, those statements are a red flag to a 13 year old intellectual; and if repeated to her 13 year old intellectual friends will have her buried in derision and ridicule. However,

The message of God - the Bible, the Cross, the blood of Christ, salvation - is logical. It is reasonable. It is coherent. It is consistent. It is sound. It is true. It is not true because someone says it is; or because you believe it - it is true because it is real. There is such a thing as an absolute objective reality. God has said He wants you to know; and He has given you a mind with which to understand the truth. Our faith is not based upon a leap in the dark - it is based on eyewitness testimony. Our faith is a reasonable, logical, coherent, consistent system of truth that is understandable.

. . .

We are in a struggle for truth and the authority of that truth . . . That is why we study the Bible . . .

but:

How do we trust the authority of the Bible? Christians are famous for circular reasoning: we believe the Bible is the word of God and study it because in the Bible it says it is the word of God. So, how do we know it is the word of God (without circular reasoning)? This is a question we should be able to answer.

This, of course, is where my daughter is now. Will she do the work? Or simply step away from her faith because it is easier than anchoring it. Carl again:

Most people do not do the work - they just believe what they hear - and that is not the proper use of our minds.

So, if you are one of those Christians who do not know whether they can really trust the Bible - then you need to deal with that first. Do not primarily read the Bible if you do not trust it . . . this is where you need to do your work and engage your mind. If your faith is at the place where you just do not know if the Bible is true or not - that is where you need to focus.

and

It was here that Carl did his investigation: Has it been protected for 2000 years - is it true to what was written long ago? So he studied the ancient manuscripts and how the canon was set. There are huge, incredible books written on that. There is the internal evidence that it is the word of God; and there are great books written on that. There are books written on questions that skeptics ask - so you get and read some of those . . . When we do our own investigation, and engage our minds, we can pile up huge amounts of evidence to prove the reliability of the word of God.

Now I get to help my daughter work through this process if she will work through it. Again, I thank God for the opportunity to provide spiritual leadership to my daughter. I thank Him for preparing me for this task all of my life. And, of course, I thank Him for my daughter and her "coming to doubt" at such a good time.

This post isn't about getting advice (but I welcome it) - my whole life has pointed to this moment. It is about prayer: for my patience and wisdom; and for her to truly pursue the truth now that she has found herself doubting the truth. Hey, a Christian buddy of mine suggested that I really needed to read the Quran the other day; and last night I offered to read through it with my daughter. That brings to mind one of my wife's favorite sayings:

Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous

Read more!

"Training vs. Trying" Pt. 3

[I am continuing to journal the study questions from Chapter 3 of John Ortberg's The Life You've Always Wanted. For some "look ahead" at the book, I have posted the chapter titles at the index link at the bottom.]

Some Personal Stuff

Prayer Direction:

Many of your group members communicated that they are making a commitment to specific disciplines that will help them overcome barriers and grow in spiritual maturity. Pray for each of your group members to stay committed to these new disciplines. Pray for them to experience joy and encouragement as they begin this journey.

Living the Life:

The author writes about the reality that people don't just drift into a life of training. They must be committed.

• What is one specific step you need to take to begin your training toward developing a new area of spiritual discipline?
• Who will you invite to encourage you, challenge you, and keep you accountable in this area of commitment?

Personal Reflection:

The author says that if keeping the spiritual disciplines makes us less loving, rather than more loving, we would be better off not practicing them. Are there disciplines you need to stop because they are driving love out of your life?

All of these are more private spiritual questions for your personal reflection.

Please be free to share these personal reflections as you are moved. Particularly, if you are in need of the prayer in the "prayer direction", or wish to be supported by someone "Living the Life" - please say so in the comments.

Next in series: "A 'Dee Dah Day' " Pt. 1
Index to Series

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"Training vs Trying" Pt. 2

[I am continuing to journal the study questions from Chapter 3 of John Ortberg's The Life You've Always Wanted. For some "look ahead" at the book, I have posted the chapter titles at the index link at the bottom.]

How do we know what spiritual disciplines to practice? In a sense, the answer comes from thinking backwards

• First, we must understand clearly what it means to live in the Kingdom of God. Jesus spent much of his time helping people see what true spirituality looks like.
• Second, we must learn what particular barriers keep us from living that kind of life.
• Third, we must discover what particular practices, experiences, or relationships can help us overcome these barriers. . . .

For some of you reading this book, perhaps the single most spiritual thing you could do is put it down and take a nap -- John Ortberg

Additional Small Group Questions

1. What are some of the possible implications for a person who decides to only try hard but never train?



2. If we make personal spiritual advancement a legalistic program, how can this lead to guilt and sadness rather than joy?



3. How have you found joy and peace during the times you have developed disciplines that train you for godliness?


[The next question really requires background I didn't give. For that background read this comment]


4. What are some of the signs that the wind of the Spirit is blowing and that you should raise your sails?

Next in series: "Training vs. Trying" Pt. 3
Index to Series

Read more!

"Training vs. Trying" Pt. 1

[I am continuing to journal the study questions from Chapter 3 of John Ortberg's The Life You've Always Wanted. For some "look ahead" at the book, I have posted the chapter titles at the index link at the bottom.]

There is an immense difference between training to do something and trying to do something. Spiritual transformation is not about trying harder but training wisely. Also the author wanted to point out, before examining spiritual disciplines, that spiritual disciplines are not:

• a barometer of spirituality;
• a way to earn favor with God;
• necessarily unpleasant

The author's definition of a discipline:

Any activity we can do by direct effort that can help me to do what I cannot now do by direct effort

Main Questions

1. Failure to train:
   1. Describe a time when you failed to train and discovered that no matter how hard you tried, you could not accomplish your goal.
   2. What did you learn from this experience?

Answer: my two attempts at college; and actually high school, are an example.

In high school, I didnt really have to work and learned no study disciplines. While I finished with good grades, they were not good enough for the level of school I wanted to go to (but hadnt earned) - or at least not and get a scholarship.

In my first term of college, that lack of study disciplines gave home to roost - and the general lack of real effort and discipline in high school pushed me into "flunk out" mode in college.


2. The author talks about the need to train for things like competing in an athletic event, learning an instrument or a new language, or running a business.
   1. What might happen if a person takes training seriously in one of these areas?
   2. Tell about a time you trained and prepared and how you felt when you were able to accomplish your goal.

Answer: (1) they will excel on a higher level than would have been the case if they had not prepared and trained.

(2) My second time in college, at 40, I excelled academically and earned my degree - because I took a study skills class before I started my academic subjects, and then applied, and honed, those skills as I went through school.


3. The author points out that there are certain disciplines needed to train for a triathlon and a very different set of disciplines needed to prepare for a pie eating contest. Every area of life demands different disciples for growth. What are some of the core elements of a disciplined training regiment that will help you prepare for spiritual vitality and maturity?

Answer: for me,
• prayer with my wife (which I hardly do - but helps immensely),
• time in the word,
• accountability with other believers in small groups (both to help me and help them)
• discussion to clarify and develop my ideas.
• looking for ways to reach out and aide my neighbors - whether those that live with me or those I come in contact with every day.


Background: The frog and the toad

In the children's book Frog and Toad Together, the two central characters discover the limits of mere trying when Frog bakes a batch of cookies. "We ought to stop eating," they say, as they keep eating. "We must stop," they resolve, as they eat some more. "We need willpower," Frog finally says, grabbing another cookie.

"What is willpower?" asks Toad, swallowing another mouthful.

"Willpower is trying very hard not to do something you want to do very much," Frog says.

Frog discusses a variety of ways to help with willpower-putting the cookies in a box, tying the box shut, putting it high up in a tree-but each time Toad points out (in between bites) that they could climb the tree and untie the box. In desperation, Frog finally dumps the remaining cookies outside on the ground: "Hey, birds!" he calls. "Here's cookies!"

"Now we have no more cookies," says Toad sadly.

"Yes," says Frog, "but we have lots and lots of willpower."

"You may keep it all," Toad replies. "I'm going home to bake a cake."

4. Describe a time you have felt like these two discipline challenged friends?

Answer: oh so much. I continue to struggle with pornography; and it feels exactly like these two pastry eating animals.


5. One definition of spiritual discipline is "any activity that can help you gain power to live life as Jesus taught and modeled it." Take time as a group to walk through the process below:
   
   
   1. To get a taste of how broad this is, work as a group to form a list of at least twenty examples of things you can do that will help you gain power to live the life Jesus intended.
   
   Answer:
   • Prayer
   • Service to others unselfishly
   • Being in God's word
   • Quiet time with God
   • Self-examination
   
   
   2. To help you think creatively and deeply, once you are out of ideas, try to come up with three more!
   3. Use your group's brainstorming list above to identify one new spiritual discipline you want to develop in your life.
   4. Tell your small, group members what new discipline you will be practicing and how you hope it will impact your spiritual life.
   5. Invite them to encourage you and pray for you in the coming weeks as you grow in this area.


Psalms 127:1 Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain. 2 It is vain for you to rise up early, To retire late, To eat the bread of painful labors; For He gives to His beloved {even in his} sleep.


6. John talks about how being a parent can become God's training' school for spiritual maturity in a person's life.
   1. What are some of the unique spiritual lessons that can be learned in this season of life?
   2. What title would you give far the unique season of life you are in now and how can this season become a time of growth and formation in becoming all God wants you to be?

Answers: (1)
• patience,
• ability to accept imperfection,
• learning to guide change,
• unconditional love towards another,
• realization of our lack of control :-)
• caretaking of what God has given us.

(2) I am a parent - this example worked real well for me. I am also spiritually growing, and struggling (which is necessary for the growth). I am trying to get over a "hump" to "the next level" in my walk with God.


7. We all know what it feels like to be rested and what it feels like to be very tired.
   1. How do you change for the worse when you are tired and how do you change for the better when you are rested?
   2. How might adjusting your present sleep patterns help you grow in your ability to love God and others?

Answers: (1) I am more tempted when tired, and have less interest in fighting that temptation off.

(2) Well, the above being reversed - also not staying up as late would give me more time away from the sources of the temptations and more time to spend on the things that truly matter.

Next in series: "Training vs. Trying" Pt. 2
Index to Series

Read more!

"Surprised by Change" Pt. 3

[I am continuing to journal the study questions from Chapter 2 of John Ortberg's The Life You've Always Wanted. For some "look ahead" at the book, I have posted the chapter titles at the index link at the bottom.]

Some Personal Stuff

Prayer Direction:

Take time to prayer for group members who feel spiritually depleted and whose tanks are running low. Pray for a fresh filling of the presence of God and for renewed and authentic faith

Living the Life:

Take time in the coming week to help fuel up one of your small-group members through praying daily for them; through an affirming note; or by some creative means of encouragement

Personal Reflection:

What are some of the boundary markers the reflect the spiritual life of your church or community?

• Vocabulary
• Dress
• Major Do's
• Major Don'ts
• Worship Style

Personal Disciplines:

The author said that Jesus was the most approachable person who ever lived. What can you do to grow in your approachability and be more like Jesus

All of these are more private spiritual questions for your personal reflection.

Please be free to share these personal reflections as you are moved. Particularly, if you are in need of the prayer in the "prayer direction", or wish to be supported by someone "Living the Life" - please say so in the comments.

Next in series: "Training vs. Trying"
Index to Series

Read more!

"Surprised by Change" Pt. 2

[I am continuing to journal the study questions from Chapter 2 of John Ortberg's The Life You've Always Wanted. For some "look ahead" at the book, I have posted the chapter titles at the index link at the bottom.]

I will probably not get a chance to answer these before my meeting tonight and will go not fully prepared.

Additional Group Questions

1. What are some of the signs that we are settling for pseudo-transformation rather than a true and life-changing work of God within us?


Read Deuteronomy 6:1-9 and Matthew 22:37-40


2. How do these passages fly in the face of boundary-marker spirituality and call us to authentic faith?


3. On a scale from 1 to 10, 1 being completely legalistic and 10 loving God with your all and your neighbor as yourself, how do you rate yourself?



4. The author wrote about the tendency to become judgemental and exclusive. What are some of the dangers if we let the poison of judgemental pride fill our hearts?
   • For us
   • For the church
   • For those outside the church

Next in series: "Surprised by Change" Pt. 3
Index to Series

Read more!

"Surprised by Change" Pt. 1

[I am continuing to journal the study questions from Chapter 2 of John Ortberg's The Life You've Always Wanted. For some "look ahead" at the book, I have posted the chapter titles at the index link at the bottom.]

Main Questions

Background: The story of "Hank" begins the chapter.

Hank was a cranky guy. He did not smile easily, and when he did, the smile often had a cruel edge to it, coming at someone's expense. He had a knack for discovering islands of bad news in oceans of happiness. He would always find a cloud where others saw a silver lining.

Hank rarely affirmed anyone. He operated on the assumption that if you compliment someone, it might lead to a swelled head, so he worked to make sure everyone stayed humble. His was a ministry of cranial downsizing.

His native tongue was complaint. He carried judgment and disapproval the way a prisoner carries a ball and chain. Although he went to church his whole life, he was never unshackled

The church Hank attended expected Hank to come to church, tithe, affirm certain beliefs, and avoid certain sins. They didn't expect that each year Hank would progressively be transformed to be more like Christ.

1. Without using a name, how have you been impacted by a "Hank" in your life?

Answer: I haven't been able to think of a "Hank" although I know I have met them. Do I just ignore and blot them out of my memory? Wow


2. What are some of the possible consequences if we expect people to follow a list of rules and regulations but fail to call them to a life that is becoming more and more like Jesus?

Answer: Jesus cared about our insides more than our outsides - so we are allowing to put on a mask and yet lead an untransformed life. We are also saying that as long as the act and look right - we really do not care what their life is really like; or what their walk with Christ is really like




[each of us is] like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased -- C.S. Lewis

3. In what ways is this true of your life? [this is about spiritual, and not temporal, issues]

Answer: This is a major issue for me for reasons I have expressed here before. We lose the ability to truly walk in joy with Christ when we step away from Him in disobediance. It is such foolishness to protect parts of our lives that leave us making mud pies alone rather than going on a beach holiday with God.


Background:

James Dunn notes that in the first century A.D. a vast amount of rabbinic writing focused on circumcision, dietary laws, and Sabbath keeping. This seems odd, because no devout rabbi would have said these matters were at the heart of the Law. They knew its core: 'Hear, 0 Israel: The LORD is our God, the LORD alone. You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might." So why the focus on these three practices?

The answer involves what might be called "identity" or "boundary markers." Groups have a tendency to be exclusive. Insiders want to separate themselves from outsiders. So they adopt boundary markers. These are highly visible, relatively superficial practices - matters of vocabulary or dress or style - whose purpose is to distinguish between those inside a group and those who are outside.

Now, read Matthew 23:1-28


4. Jesus tells us a great deal about the teachers of the law and the Pharisees
   1. What were some of their boundary markers?
   2. How did Jesus feel about this approach to faith?
   3. What are some examples of how these markers exist today?

Answer:

Part 1: The pharisees talked the right stuff but didnt do it; made their dress the best; sat in places of honor; sought respectful names; traveled to make disciples; made long prayers; made rules on which types of oaths were binding; tithed; and generally looked good on the outside. All of this while they didnt follow Gods commands themselves; and they were thiefs.

Part 2: It was the reverse of what it should be. We should "clean the inside of the cup" so that the outside would be clean. We should be righteous and not try to appear righteous.

Part 3: All of them: dress, avoiding smoking, trying to evangelize while they themselves are living a lie, saying the right things but not doing the right things, etc.



5. Sometimes our spiritual tank is overflowing; and sometimes it is running on fumes. How is your spiritual tank right now.
   1. What has brought you to this point?
   2. What fills your tank and gives you fuel for authentic spiritual growth?
   3. What causes your tank to empty?
   4. What can you do in the coming week to make sure your tank is being filled for authentic Christian living, and who will keep you accountable in this growth area?
   
   Answer: I put my tank at 1/2 full
   
   (1) I am at this point because I still avoid things the Holy Spirit tells me not to avoid: prayer with my wife, daily quiet time with God. This is coupled with doing things I know I shouldnt. In my life, this teetor-toter is clear to me - spend more time with God and my other problems drop; spend less and they rise.
   
   (2) Answered in #1
   (3) Pretty much answered in #1
   (4) Continue to work on having spiritural time alone; and with my wife. My accountability is in my men's study group.
   
   
   
6. If you were asked: How is your spiritual life?
   1. What would you use to measure and determine the condition of your spiritual life?
   2. What are healthy and Christ-honoring measures of our spiritual health?

Answer:

(1) My avoidence of the sin that plagues me is the clearest test.

(2) the "fruit" in Galatians 5 are a good measure - and one I use (when I have quiet time and think to examine it):

22 . . . the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control;

and of course the "bad fruit" right above provide some negative examples

19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing,

It is interesting that he lists "deeds" in the negative examples, but the positive ones are more attitudinal. Huh.


Again, if you are of a faith tradition other than Christianity you are welcome to answer these questions from your perspective - we can all learn much from how they are viewed. Answer or not - privately or publicly; lurk or not; pick and choose - let's see if we can get a good discussion going.

Next in series: "Surprised by Change" Pt. 2
Index to Series

Read more!

Christian Carnivals 141, 142, and 143

Boy these things get past me while I am working

* * * * *

CXLI (141)

The introduction from Penitens at The Penitent Blogger:

I am honored to be the host. My sincerest thanks to Dory and to all who submitted posts this week. My apologies for the delay and the lack of a brilliant theme on my part.

* * * * *

CXLII (142)

The introduction from NerdMom at The Nerd Family:

Thank you all for joining me for this week's Christian Carnival. We have many wonderful entries so let us jump right in!

* * * * *

CXLIII (143)

The introduction from Mick at Romans 15:4 Project:

I am honored to be your host. Let's open with a prayer from Psalm 90:

Heavenly Father -

Before the mountains were born
or you brought forth the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God. (v. 2)

I pray, Lord, that our musings here today would honor you and draw each of the writers and readers closer to you -

Teach us to number our days aright,
that we may gain a heart of wisdom. (v. 12)

In Jesus Christ's name I pray - Amen.

Let's see what kind of conversations we come across at the water cooler!

About Christian Carnival:

Contributing a Post to the Christian Carnival

The Christian Carnival is open to Christians of Protestant, Orthodox, and Roman Catholic convictions. One of the goals of this Carnival is to offer our readers to a broad range of Christian thought.

Posts need not be of a theological topic. Posts about home life, politics, or current events, for example, written from a Christian worldview are welcome.

Update: As the goal of this Carnival is to highlight Christian thought in the blogosphere, entries will be limited to blogs that share that goal. Blogs with content that is focused on a business, that has potentially offensive material Christians may not want to link to on their sites, or has no reference to distinctively Christian thought may not be included in this Carnival. There are other Carnivals that would be a more appropriate venue for that material. I realize that this will be a judgment call on the part of the Carnival administrator, and being human she may make mistakes. However, as the Christian Carnival is getting quite large, and it is sometimes questionable whether the entrants are seeking to promote Christian thought, I find this necessary.

Update: We also expect a level of discourse that is suitable for a Christian showcase. Thus entries may be refused if they engage in name-calling, ad hominem attacks, offensive language, or for any similar reason as judged by the administrator.

So, if you have a post in this framework - go here to find out more: Christian Carnival Participation Instructions.

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Elections and Abortions

Just another one of those conversation posts that originated at Street Prophets. I think Pastordan is probably correct - the Foley scandal may just be the last straw to end the Republican majority in the U.S. House of Representatives and perhaps the U.S. Senate.

I linked this post by Joe Carter at Evangelical Outpost where he agrees that this is the apparent case

Poll after poll shows that voters are dissatisfied with the GOP. For months conservative pundits have been listing the reasons why the Republicans deserve to lose. Then the Foley scandal broke, revealing that the House leadership is either more corrupt or incompetent than we had imagined. Congressional Republicans appear to be headed for a fall this fall.

except, in the end, abortion will doom the Democrats

Once the dust settles, though, the result will be the same as it’s been for a decade: the Republicans will still be in control of the House and Senate and the Democrat’s will wonder how they managed to blow it yet again. There will be the inevitable stream of books and op-eds to explain “What Went Wrong” but they’ll be missing the two words that consistently kill the hopes for a Democratic-controlled legislature: Roe and Doe.

A pretty good discussion ensued in this thread. The key comment in this thread that led to this post, after me saying abortion really isn't a "single-issue":

Well, For JCH it is more than a simple single issue. He posted the other day that if you banned abortion (and that's the big IF), you'd also need other things, reform the adoption system, better pre and post natal care, etc.

That really does take it above the mantra of "single-issue".

However, I don't think that's the stance of most of these anti-abortion voters, at least the ones I've met.

Most of these people are looking for a very simplistic...and to be honest morally safe*.. black and white view of the world. And this issue seems to give it to them.

*And by morally safe, I mean that it's in an area that they won't "trip" themselves, so they. and others can see them in those pristine pure white terms.

Needless to say, a lot of those people I've met I personally would say are quite morally challenged, so to speak.

I like Karmakin a lot actually, considering how different we are. He is struggling mightily to come up with a moral "language" that both secular and religious folks can unite around in a common framework. Since I believe in a version of natural law, and the actual existence of common moral beliefs stretching across all cultures and religions, I like his style - a lot.

The comment by me that he mentions in that last quote is here and the applicable section to this post is this:

Abortion: I think abortion is immoral, but shouldn't be outlawed.

• If on the national level, they tell me they will work to pass any constitutional amendment on abortion, pro or con, they are probably done. I might support one that bans but allows exceptions for life and health of mother, and severe health issues for child, plus rape and incest. They better, however, also support complete medical coverage and financial support (paid medical leave) for all pregnancies, and adoption reform - or they should just leave it to the states
• On the national level, if they say they will get judges to overturn Roe, they are done.
• On any level, if they oppose parental notification, they are done

Now, my response to my abortion stance not being "single-issue" because I wanted to include social and material support for women (with some modification)

* * * * *

I wish I could say that is what I meant by "single issue". For many in my church, say, those 1,200,000+ abortions a year are just as real a lost life as a soldier or civilian killed in Iraq or an earthquake victim in Pakistan. Period. All the deaths in Iraq are a drop in the abortion bucket. All of the AIDS deaths in sub-Sahara Africa in 2005 is only about 700,000 more than the abortion deaths in the US alone. The exceptions for life and health of the mother, health of the child, rape and incest only amount to about 10% of that 1,200,000 - leaving over a 1,000,000 that are the taking of innocent life without excuse.

Frankly, while I am more politically-wired and looking for compromises that can do something, I agree. If you believe that, all other issues pall - and the defenders of abortion, in justifying abortion, really are justifying a degradation of all American culture. Everything good and moral begins to sink into the abyss with this immorality.

We are created imago dei: in the image of God. Our value is defined not by what "we can do" (our value to others), but "what we are"(our intrinsic value). In justifying abortion, different folks have different standards on what abilities constitute a person they have to hold in regard: sentience, cognition, self-awareness, sociality, the capacity to make plans, or their mother believing they have that regard. All of these are measures not of "what we are" but "what we can do" - they all ignore imago dei and that we have an inherent nature that is worthy of respect and that makes us a "rights bearer" regardless of the narrow definitions of "personhood" our society may hold. Once we start defining which "images of God" are not "persons" with adequate sentience, cognition, self-awareness, sociality, capacity to make plans, etc. - then we justify infanticide, mercy killing, and active euthanasia (which I actually support in Oregon) - not to mention just good old fashion racism, sexism, murder and genocide.

In discussing the five furies of conscience, J. Budziszewski used abortion in every example. When I discussed the Five Furies, I removed abortion from the examples, because I frankly did not want to be accused of back-dooring an anti-abortion rant by means of a philosophy discussion - just as Joe Carter was accused of running Karl Rove's "wedge issue play sheet" by one of his commenter's in his post linke above. I wanted to discuss conscience without a pie-fight on abortion. J. Bud's reason for using abortion throughout this discussion:

All the furies collude. Each reinforces the others, not only in individuals but in the social group. Perhaps you and I connive in displaced reconciliation by becoming comrades in guilty deeds. Or perhaps my compulsion to confess feeds your compulsion to justify yourself. In such ways entire groups, entire societies may drive themselves downhill, as the revenge of the conscience grows more and more terrible.

My examples focus on abortion, which is both the chief means by which our is losing our moral sanity and the greatest symptom of its loss

I am still not interested in a pie-fight on abortion - I just want to make you understand that this isn't a "wedge issue", or a "distraction from the real moral issues", or a "single-issue" for a large number of US voters. Committed pro-life folk weigh other issues; and if you want to "balance their view" then you have to place "values" greater than a million lives on the other side of the scale. That is not really very easy to accomplish. If you thought fetuses were imago dei and rights bearers, just like you, because they have intrinsic worth based on what they are rather than what they can do, it would be hard to distract you from this issue as well. A million lives is a million lives.

The other solution is to "lower the weight" of the million lives so that it is easier to balance that weight on the other side. However, the more

• they are called "believers in forced childbirth" without any discussion of who "forces" women to get pregnant
• they hear fetuses called clumps of cells
• Democrats "support" the continuation of procedures like Intact D&X's
• Democrats oppose parental notification (supported by 80% of the population);

- then the more they believe that the Democratic Party is incapable of compromising on abortion on demand. They believe, as sometimes I feel, that the Democratic Party has never met an abortion they didn't like - and certainly none they deeply despise.

I doubt if many expect (even if they hope for) the repeal of Roe (I don't - I think the SC appointments were made for that not to happen) but what they expect is to nibble away and restrict abortion, both nationally and at the state level: they want to get it to the point where it is only available in cases of risk to the life of the mother, rape and incest. I think health of the child will be added to that list. Health of the mother may be added if it isn't used to create to large a loophole. Keep in mind: two-thirds of Amercans want abortion restricted from its current levels. They also want abortion unchosen, even if they are not committed, as many are, to making it illegal. Do folks who want to see abortion severely lowered have reason to believe the Democratic Party is going to lead this fight?

I am not trying to change your view of abortion (although that would be nice), just make you understand the passion underlying this issue - and the way folks see it connected to the moral health and life of the whole culture. This is not a "single issue" for these folks; but a nearly impossible to balance "life and death" issue.

Now, if I believe it is this wrong then why do I not support efforts to make it illegal? J. Budziszewski:

To the question "Should the civil law enforce the precepts of the faith?" the biblical answer is, "Some yes, but some no; which ones do you mean?" The New Testament contains literally hundreds of precepts. However, Christianity is not a legislative religion. While the Bible recognizes the Torah as a divinely revealed code for the ruling of Israel before the coming of Messiah, it does not include a divinely revealed code for the ruling of the gentiles afterward. To be sure, the Bible limits the kinds of laws that Christians can accept from their governments, for "we must obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29). However, it does not prescribe specific laws that they must demand from them.

It is not even true that all of God's commands limit the kinds of laws that Christians can accept. To see this, contrast two such precepts: (1) I am prohibited from deliberately shedding innocent blood; (2) I am prohibited from divorcing a faithful spouse. Both precepts are absolute in their application to me, but that is not the issue. If we are speaking of governmental enforcement, then we are speaking of their application to others. The former precept should require very little watering down in the public square, for even nonbelievers are expected to understand the wrong of murder. That is why I may be confident in condemning the legalization of abortion.

J. Bud may be confident, but regretfully there is no common view that abortion is not a justified taking of life, or even the taking of a "life" at all - which means legal solutions do not exist. We must "win hearts and minds" and make it unchosen - even if we cannot make it illegal.

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