Tuesday, August 08, 2006

If A Quote Seems Crazy . . .

[Now that the political season is upon us (is it ever off) I thought I would bring this post over from Street Prophets]

. . . it just might be.

I find myself combating a lot of what I consider craziness about conservative evangelicals, and fundamentalists, especially lately about those that believe in a pre-tribulation rapture of the church [I do not know what I think about this] and their supposed disdain for the ecology, etc.

In fact, some of them [in most comments this feels like "all" - but isn't] are attributed with desiring death, destruction, and ecological disaster to speed on the coming return of Christ. This is something I have never heard out of the mouth, or seen in the writings, of a theologically conservative Christian. I see it stated about conservative Christians by liberal Christians, and liberals in general - but really have no clue where it comes from.

In the diary "Religious Groups Want... Apocalypse Now!" another example of the spread of "urban legends" and flatout falsehoods reared its head.

Since we [Street Prophets] are a website about "faith and politics" we seem to have a desire among ourselves to avoid attributing to people we are around here ideas and beliefs they do not hold. That is a good thing.

Now, when I challenged a quoted Moyer speech because the end-times scenario he quoted was held by no group I can imagine - it illicited these comments:

Because he's actually done research and investigated these cultural groups in-depth and you haven't?
Bill Moyers is an ordained minister who was educated at seminary, I do believe. He knows theology -- and is an able critic.
and finally, the one one that sent me to a search engine:
But with all due respect, I don't think you read carefully -- because the information is there. Did you see the quote from James Watt in one of my own blockquoted comments? . . .
Ah, the James Watt quote from 1981:
"after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back."
Watt never said it, Grist and Moyers both apologized for it - over a year ago - but here it is again.

Look at the search I linked: In the summary of the fourth 5th link down it says Watt never said it.

So, I invite folks who believe that any significant number of Christians of any type believe this - pardon my french - shit to read what James Watt had to say as part of this, and this, comment in the . . . Apocalypse Now! diary:

If such a body of belief exists, I would totally reject it, as would all of my friends. When asked who believed such error, where adherents to this "false gospel" might be found, the NCC turned to its theological sources, Moyers and a magazine called Grist, which had also apologized to me. I then contacted the chairman of the NCC task force and asked him about the "some people" who believe this false gospel and the "proud preachers" advancing this false gospel. He could not name such persons.
Bill Moyers, in the speech in question:
warned his audience about people blinded by their ideology and religious beliefs. The combination, he said, can make one "oblivious to the facts."
And, it can make us not realize that if a quote is too crazy to be true, it might not be.

1 comment:

  1. RE:
    "warned his audience about people blinded by their ideology and religious beliefs. The combination, he said, can make one "oblivious to the facts."

    I couldn't have asked for a better opening...

    Understanding the Fatal Flaws in Judeo-Christian-Islamic Prophecy

    Hello JCHFleetguy and all,

    Remember the saying that "the truth will set you (and others) free?" How does "opening one's eyes to the truth" relate to "making the blind see again" or "shining the light" or "illuminating a subject?" Notice the inherent symbolism associated with this supposed New Testament "miracle?"

    Pay close attention, profundity knocks at the door, listen for the key. Be Aware! Scoffing causes blindness...

    Here's the key to proving that the rapture and related expectations are complete nonsense based on the failure to understand (and the purposeful confounding of) the ancient Hebrew symbology used to construct all of these prophecies. Consequently, Christian timelines and interpretations of these prophecies are verifiably wrong on many key points.

    Did you ever consider that Christianity is the False Prophet symbolized in the Apocalypse, that Rome (Vatican/Papacy) is the so-called anti-messiah, and Jesus Christ is the false messiah? I have produced stunning and comprehensive proof that this is the true interpretation of pivotal prophecies long confounded by Christianity's founders and leaders. Recasting the symbolism of earlier Hebrew texts as literal events in the New Testament is one of the central deceptions associated with Christianity.

    The symbolism of seven years (tribulation, etc.) refers to seven 360-year cycles on the Hebrew calendar. Ezekiel 39.9 is referring to the 10th to 16th cycles inclusive, while the Apocalypse symbolizes the 11th cycle (second temple period) until now, the beginning of the 17th cycle (seventh angel/star/seal, etc.). Greece (Alexander the Great) conquered the Persian Empire and Judea during the 10th cycle and Rome did so again during the 11th cycle. Both Ezekiel and the Apocalypse are symbolizing an overlapping period of time that starts during ancient Judea and ends now. Gog refers to Greco-Romans (...from the "isles"), which means Magog is Eurasia and the "army" that besets "Israel" for seven "years" refers to the activities of the nations of the Greco-Roman/Vatican Empire over the previous two-plus millennia.

    It is completely wrong to interpret any of these prophecies as literal timelines and events. Unlike Christian assertions, they symbolize long periods of time, pivotal situations, and the flow of activities during that period. Remember, they were written by ancient Hebrew sages, not Romans or other Europeans, and Revelation is the most symbolic of all prophecies. Consequently, in this context, "years" and "times" are symbols for 360-year cycles on the Hebrew calendar and days symbolize literal years. Therefore "Judgement Day," "Great Day" and "in that day" all refer to a literal year-long period. Accordingly, the so-called "Seven Years Tribulation" began in ancient Judea and is now nearing its end, not starting. The nations and followers of all three faiths of Abraham have been thoroughly deceived by Rome during the previous age, which ended in year 2000 (5760). A new age began in 2001 (5761) and now the seventh angel has begun to sound!

    Read the full article below:

    Here is Wisdom



How to debate charitably (rules are links to more description of rule):
1. The Golden Rule
2. You cannot read minds
3. People are not evil
4. Debates are not for winning
5. You make mistakes
6. Not everyone cares as much as you
7. Engaging is hard work
8. Differences can be subtle
9. Give up quietly